I'm not going to tell you who is on which side. I am just going to throw some arguments out there and wait for your opinions. I hope some of these opinions are based on the word of God.
Here goes....do good people DESERVE good things? Well maybe you are thinking "describe a good person." Generally I'd say a good person is one who isn't stealing, isn't murdering people, goes to church and lives the life God wants them to live, honest and trustworthy, caring and kind towards others, etc. You got the picture yet?
We have been "researching" about this topic and the things I have found have blown me away. I discovered that according to God's good word there are no GOOD people. What??? Are you serious. Yep...you can read it right here in Romans 3:9-19 "There is none righteous,not even one;there is none who understands, there is none who seeks God.....There is none who does good,there is not even one." Not even one??? Really...are you thinking like myself right now..."God must have forgotten about me. I mean I'm a relatively good person." The research I have found described this as "public decency." Ha...I guess you could also describe it that way but I like to think of it as a good person.
So...I want you to think about it. Our situation for instance...A young married couple has a baby who they would love and take care of with the best of them. Has a terminally ill child and child dies. Does this family DESERVE a healthy child? Does this family DESERVE some happiness in their life? Or maybe it is the family who the parent has had cancer and has lost the dad. Does this family DESERVE some happiness thrown their way? Or maybe it is a young divorced Godly woman who has been through trial after trial with health problems and leaving a husband who wasn't the man she needed. She seeks the Lord and lives for him. Does she not DESERVE a good Godly man?
I would love for you guys to help us understand this scenario. I think a lot of people out there have the same debate going on in their heads and I think it would be awesome to have a scriptual debate right here on Ian's Reason.
Do good people DESERVE good things? Do bad people DESERVE good things or bad things? Are any of us good....according to Romans 9 we aren't???
So go get our your bibles and dig in. Share what you find on here so everyone can learn from this debate. You can sign the guest book by choosing "anonymous." Just remember to put your name at the end of your entry so we know who wrote it. Good luck studying for your side of the debate. I can't wait to read your findings.
Hello Mary, when I read this I had to respond. Romans 8:28 always comes to my mind when I think about the question you have posed to us. "And God causes ALL things to work together for good, to those who love God, to those who are called according to HIS purpose." When God sent His son, he looked down and saw NO good people because he looks at all sin the same so He sent His son to take on all our sin so we wouldn't be doomed to hell. Do good people DESERVE bad things? Go back to Genesis and read the story of Joseph. He was sold into slavery by his brothers and worked for a man named Potipher. Potipher's wife tried coming on to Joseph and when he denied her, she pretended that he attacked her so Joseph was thrown into prison where he stayed a long time. He got out because God gave him knowledge of Pharoah's dream and Joseph was made 2nd in command because he basically saved Egypt and the world from starvation brought on by a famine. Why do bad things happen to good people? Joseph could have questioned God but he did not; he only trusted Him. Joseph understood what few of us do, and that is what we see as bad for us, God may be using for our best interest. He was able to save his family from the perils of famine and eventually reunited with them. He tells them,
ReplyDelete"And God sent me before you to preserve a posterity for you in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. So now, it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord to all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt." But while all those bad things were happening to Joseph, you will not find one word of criticism toward God. You will not find him doing the wrong thing. You'll find him pleasing God in everything that he did. And when we please God in our lives, even bad things can become good things for us. when you live a life that pleases God, even when tough things come into your life, God can make a tougher person out of you and make a better person out of you if you don't question His will or His plan, but simply live a life that pleases Him.
Mary, Pat and I continually pray for you and Wae and I know God will use you in a might way.
Ashley Maples
I am thinking to my self the word "Good" is relative. None of us are "Good" according to God and what exactly is a "Good" thing? The earthly things we think are so great are nothing compared to what we will get in heaven. "For I recon the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us" Romans 8:18. I always catch my self thinking oh Lord don't come back or take me until I have a baby. Now I say oh Lord don't let anything happen to me I need to see Owen grow up... I think it is human nature to think this way. Each thing that happens to us on earth is a challenge God presents us with. He already knows the outcome. I think it is human to want something "good" for yourself or think God can I please have a break, I am due for something "good". The fact of the matter is we don't deserve anything. We don't deserve the Salvation that Jesus gave us but he did. We live each day by the Grace of God. We praise him and thank him for his mercy so we can have eternal life. After all it is Him who "is before all things and in Him all things hold together" (Colossians 1.17)
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Kyla I loved what you said. I wish I could have seen things that clearly at your young age.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all to say that we deserve something implies that we have "earned" or are "worthy" of something. We can never earn or be worthy of God's grace and mercy. He gives it to us as a free gift just for believing he is the one and only "Son of God".
What do we "deserve?" The dictionary definition of "deserve" goes like this:
To earn by service; to be worthy of (something due, either good or evil); to merit; to be entitled to; as, the laborer deserves his wages; a work of value deserves praise. To serve; to treat; to benefit. To be worthy of recompense; -- usually with ill or with well.
Did Joseph deserve to be sold as a slave in chains? Did he deserve to be thrown into jail? Did he deserve to be forgotten for years after he helped the King's butler?
OF COURSE NOT!!! But that did befall him.
Did Daniel deserve to be shipped off to a foreign country? Did he deserve to be cast into a lion's den? Did he deserve to be despised by his peers while he served the King?
NO!! But he was!
Did Paul deserve to be cast into jail? To be stoned? To be beaten with rods? Did he deserve his scars??
NO!! But, that was his life's story. Over and over again, he suffered for no other reason than his desire to serve his Lord and Savior!!!
What about Job?? Elijah?? Jeremiah??
And then there was James, who was killed by Herod's sword, AND John the Baptist!!
Look at the innumerable host of good people who have suffered unjustly in life, who were not treated kindly as they should have been treated.
SO, when you find yourself a victim of injustice, tragedy, or some wrong doing, just remember, you are in pretty good company!!!
The friends of Job assumed that his calamities were deserved. Even his wife accepted this conclusion.
ReplyDeleteWhen Jesus passed by the blind man, his disciples asked, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" (John 9:2).
Jesus left no uncertainty. "Neither this man nor his parents sinned." No one is to blame!! This is not because of anyone's sins, neither this man nor his parents. He did not deserve to be blind!!
Look at the man at the gate of the temple who was born as a cripple. (Acts 3). What did he do wrong? As far as the Divine record goes, nothing. He did not deserve to be a cripple, yet there he was.
Many are born with infirmities or deformities, which are not the fault of either them or their parents.
Many are born poor and never seem to have a door of opportunity opened to them to be otherwise. They do not deserve poverty, but there they are. Did the mom's in Haiti deserve to lose whole families and all of their children and still be homeless with no one to take care of them, no where to live, and nothing to eat! Unable to even bury their children except in mass graves with thousands of others?
One thing for sure: JESUS DID NOT DESERVE THE CROSS!!!!!!
But, God's grace stepped in and made provision for our salvation. Christ died on the tree so that we would not receive what we truly deserve.
Do we deserve to be a DAUGHTER OF THE KING, a JOINT HEIR WITH CHRIST?
I think not!! HOWEVER, I EAGERLY ACCEPT IT ALL.
I for one am thankful that we are not getting what we deserve.
Mary my thoughts on this tear at the very heart of my soul. I can never say that I understand where you are coming from because I can't. I can however say that "My God is GOOD"! And he wants you to have a good life. Romans 8:28 tells us "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (KJV). God will and is taking these bad things that have happened in your life and leading you to do things that are good in the site of the Lord. Things happen in this life that we will never be able to understand this side of "ETERNITY." To quote something my mom always told me growing up is that "It's really not about Me or You", as hard as that is sometimes it is ALL about JESUS! Love You Girl
Renee' you make me wanta shout girl! Amen!
ReplyDeleteMary I immediately thought of a post I read recently on Sherri Burgess' blog. If you haven't read it is located at http://sherriburgess.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteMary, the post mentioned above on Sherri's blog is amazing and would give you an opinion from someone who has also been through the loss of a small child.
ReplyDeleteMary, I just found how to write to you. Wanted you to know how much you still touch my heart.I think of you and Wae and your parents and cannot imagine just how strong you all are everyday. You are an inspiration and so uplifting to so many people. I will see you April 16 at Necole's church in Arab. Aunt Donna
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